Episode 7- Anti-racism and the Food Industry with Anjali Prasertong
In this episode, we speak with writer and public health dietitian Anjali Prasertong on the importance of anti-racism in the food industry. We talk about what is missing in the conversation about nutrition and wellness, culinary appropriation, and the key things founders should think about when starting food & beverage brands.
Where to connect with Anjali online:
Article on Chef Tunde Wey’s social experiment
Undoing Racism Community Organizing Workshop
Episode Key Moments:
Food systems, racial equity, and nutrition.
Racism in the food industry and its impact on health disparities.
Body ideals, BMI, and diversity in the food industry.
Culinary appropriation and cultural sensitivity.
Food innovation and its impact on the food system.
Building sustainable food brands with a strong mission and values.
Entrepreneurship, mentorship, and sustainability.
Nutrition, dietetics, and weight inclusivity.
Plantas Pod Credits
Host: Daniella Allam
Producer: Jacqueline Smith
For any questions or feedback email info@plantasstrategy.com
Episode Transcript:
Daniella Allam: Hey, everyone. Welcome to the podcast. I am so excited for our guest today. Anjali is a writer and a public health dietitian focused on food systems, racial equity and nutrition. And I'm so excited to have her on the podcast today. Welcome.
Anjali: Thank you, Danielle. I'm really happy to be here. Yeah, so I met Angela Lee, a few years ago at a really great incubator out of New Orleans for social ventures. And since then, she's gone on to do really amazing work, particularly in the dietitian space. And so she's originally from Los Angeles, where she was the contributing editor for the award-winning food website, The Kitchen, before getting her Master of Public Health from Tulane University in New Orleans. She led an innovative city-funded Corner Store Program that increased fresh food access in low-income neighborhoods and worked with food entrepreneurs in the city looking to operationalize racial equity in their businesses. She now lives in Denver, Colorado, where she writes the reader-supported an amazing newsletter, might I add, Anti Racist Dietitian, and is working with local governments, nonprofit organizations, and professional groups as a speaker and consultant on issues related to food and equity. So much there. And such an exciting trajectory. Anjali and I can't wait for our conversation.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, me too. So maybe I can just tell us a little bit to start off on your story and your background, what made you decide to be an entrepreneur and launch your your your Substack and celebrated newsletter, what led you to that?
Anjali: I think it's really just the diversity of my background. It kind of I'm a career changer. So I went to film school at USC, and really didn't end up wanting to go into the film industry. And after spending some time teaching English in Japan, decided to go back to school to become a registered dietician, because I was really interested in community nutrition and improving sort of food systems. And from there, you know, moved to New Orleans, got my public health degree, and started working at Propeller and was kind of at a crossroads after my time at Propeller. I also had this media background from working for The Kitchen for many years. So when I moved to Denver, Colorado, where I live now, I realized like, I didn't really know how to find another job at an organization in a way that made sense. You know, like, if you went to school and kind of got on this career path, and step by step made your way up. People will get your resume and say, Oh, I get it, you're right for this job, or you're not quite there yet. With me, it was just kind of all over the place. But I realized that actually, that was a huge strength as an entrepreneur and really someone kind of who wanted to write and just explore this field of dietetics that doesn't have many people talking about racial equity. And and it's been amazing to just find that audience and people that do appreciate the range of experiences that I bring to the field and my perspective. So really, it was about just not, not knowing, not really seeing like a clear path ahead of me with what I had done. And also kind of wanting to build something from the ground up that incorporated all of my values and interests. And yeah, that I could just call my own.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, and I feel like that's so much of the so many of entrepreneurs like journeys, right echo that we've heard it here on the podcast, as well, where it's like, you know, things in life lead one thing to another, and then all of a sudden, you're like, maybe I do take this leap into doing this thing that's really aligned with what I want to do. And what what like, spurred that interest in that intersection between like, nutrition and like racial equity, what what was that for you? Or where does that go back to?
Anjali: Yeah, I mean, I think it goes back to living in New Orleans that does have such a strong food culture that is deeply rooted in Black culture, and also has a lot of racial health disparities that are just kind of undeniable when you're living there and working there. So while I was at Tulane, I did, training Undoing Racism through The People's Institute for Survival and Beyond, which I highly recommend for everyone. And in that training, you know, we were talking about sort of the systems and how white supremacy is part of all these systems. And I suddenly realized that that was why I was feeling just disenchanted with dietetics and nutrition was because they didn't directly admit that that was part of the equation that people's food choices are deeply affected by their race, their class, all these other factors outside of their personal choice. So that was kind of the kickoff and me realizing I really want to do something that first admits that racism exists and like has an impact on our health. And second is trying to do something to change it. So while I was in school actually got involved with Sous Propeller got involved with a chef named Tunde Wey. I don't know if you've ever heard of him, but he was really interesting and provocative sort of social experiments that are also dining experiences. So in New Orleans, he had this pop-up lunch counter. He's originally from Nigeria, and he was interested in like shining a light on income and wealth inequities. So he had this lunch counter where he made every day a different Nigerian meal. And for the price was $12. But if you were a White person, the price was 2.5 times that, which is the income inequity between White and Black households in New Orleans.
Daniella Allam: Oh, I love that!
Anjali: So you had the choice if you're a White person to say yes, or no like, he didn't force you to pay that. But you did have to like sit through a little spiel he gave about wealth and income inequities. And then if you are a person of color, you have the option of being added onto the list of people who kind of he took all the excess funds like the the White diners that paid extra, and then at the end, dispersed them to any diner of color who wanted to sign up for this to get kind of like reparations. And then I helped him with sort of designing the data collection because everyone took a survey. So we could sort of track the demographics and people's decisions. And then I also did interviews with them. So that kind of blew up and went viral, because it was a pretty provocative idea.
Daniella Allam: It's amazing. Yeah, I made a link. I made a link. And yeah, definitely link it in the show notes. But wow, that's such a cool concept. And just so radically different from what we normally see right in the food industry, where like, I feel like the inequity, and the presence of white supremacy is often not even acknowledged. Is that right? Yeah. So it's just so so. Wow. Yeah. So like, what, what were some of the sort of Big Insights or A-Ha's that you got from that experience?
Anjali: So the big insight was, so the majority of of White diners actually did pay the higher amount and, and that but then when we broke, it broke down the numbers, it was like 90% of White women paid more. And, like 40-something percent of White men did. So that was just interesting. But also understandable because I think if you're a woman, even a White woman, It's easier to accept the idea of these things that are out of your control that have an impact on your, how much you earn and things like that. And then just talking to people, it was just so interesting to talk to, you know, I talked to a Black woman who had been given because we talked kind of talks about these points, turning points in their lives that affected their sort of class and earnings later. And so she talked about how she had been given an internship in Washington, DC when she was in college. And then she realized, Oh, but I have to support myself for three months in DC and you're not paying me anything, and I won't be able to live like how do you do that?
Daniella Allam: How will that work?
Anjali: Yeah, work. And at the same time, there was also a set of friends, one was a Black woman, a White woman, and the White woman was talking about how she realized in in doing this interview with her friend, that the small inheritance that she got from her grandmother, when her grandmother passed away, was able to support her at a time where she really needed it in order to get to that next level of making a little more money. And her Black friend did not have that, because there wasn't that generational wealth that existed.
Daniella Allam: Wow. And like, I guess that kind of leads to my next question because I love the name of your newsletter, anti-racist dietitian. I feel like that's very, as a marketer, I'm like, Yes, say how it is. Um, why is it so important to be anti-racist in the food industry? Specifically, would you say?
Anjali: I would say, in the food industry is just an industry where it's, it's, there's just so many reasons. I mean, if you're looking at, if you're looking at, for example, like the CPG industry, right, that is, you know, you and I work together there. And it's a place where just information and resources get hoarded by the people who already have power over the that information and those resources. And that means, usually White men, and without a concerted effort to change that, it will just keep perpetuating, and you might say, well, you know, I'm just, you know, going with my networks, I'm just going with the people that I know, but that is exactly the problem. And when we're talking about nutrition and health, and that side of the food industry, I think it's that, because of this legacy of racism, and slavery, and all sorts of systems of oppression, people of color are more likely to be suffering from chronic diet-related diseases. And at the same time, dietitians are 80% 80% of them are White. And so the people that are supposed to be addressing these problems, and solving them just don't represent the diversity and are less likely to kind of have the cultural skills to solve those problems.
Daniella Allam: And even like using, I think, some like outdated, potentially considered even like racist measures, right, like BMI, right? Like, what's your thought on like that? Because I mentioned that a while ago, in sort of an industry context, and everybody was so like, "What? What do you mean that BMI is not like, something we shouldn't be actually like, using? "It has some dubious sort of beginnings and backgrounds to it. So can you tell us about that, from your perspective?
Anjali: Yeah. So BMI was not intended to ever even be like an individual measure, like to measure an individual body against some sort of standard, it was intended to kind of look at, it was sort of like a thought experiment, I think of just what is the perfect body or whatever. And that was based on a White man, like much of nutrition science and research. And then since then, you know, there's really, it's, it's just kind of been used to as like a weapon against people. Because, you know, a lot people from different countries, different racial and ethnic backgrounds, don't traditionally have bodies that match up to this BMI measurements. And once you are kind of classified as quote unquote, overweight or obese, that sends you down a whole trajectory of you know, maybe there's an operation that you need, but you can't access it until you lose enough weight to be just under this measure that is really like what's the difference between 24.5 on the BMI scale versus 25? You know, like it's such a small number on the scale that it really doesn't have a true reflection on health. And a lot of just the ideals around bodies and what bodies women's bodies should look like, are rooted in just racism and slavery. And there's a really good book called Fearing the Black Body by Sabrina Strings that that gets into that.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, that's that's such a good one. And I think, yeah, it kind of shows you like how insidious like some of this stuff is, right? That it's in the food industry, it's in the health industry, you hear from your health practitioners. It it unless you have existed in a body, right? That is a marginalized body, you won't understand sort of what what kind of these bigger structures want to make you believe about what's right and what's wrong. And I think the other point that I thought was really interesting, what that brought to mind was, particularly with the CPG industry, right, like, I think a lot of people and I know this, like recently going to Expo West this last year, right? And hearing all this conversation around diversity, diversity, we want more diverse founders. But yet, you know, the room and the halls look the same that they have been for the last 10 years that I've been going, right. So like, to me, it's just indicative of like, there's a lot of talking going on, but we need to start seeing some of this real change happening and getting some of these resources, these best practices. These even like trade secrets and industry know how to a broader swath of people that can actually compete. And that's what I really love about, actually what Propeller does, and some of the work we do with with the entrepreneurs there. Because it just feels like wow, if we, if they weren't doing it through this, like they would not have access, like it's such a closed circle yet, probably most of the attendees and the natural foods and product industry think "We're very like welcoming, it's open to all" right. And we need to challenge those perceptions, and those assumptions about what is actually accessible to people versus not. So I really connected with that.
Anjali: Yeah, I totally agree. Because it's, I think there's also a difference between diversity and diversity, equity and inclusion, because you need those other two parts to truly make it a space that welcomes everyone and is available for everyone to join.
Daniella Allam: Exactly. Yeah. And I think yeah, that's another really good point that so often, people get focused on just one of those. And, and then even also, don't include some of the other things like accessibility, right? Like, let's not even talk about that one that's like really low on the list for most people. So So yeah, but keeping it into the sort of vein of anti-racism in the food industry. I saw you, I think, write about this. And I was hoping we could talk about it a little bit, which is, what is culinary appropriation? Can you define that for us? And help us understand, like, why is that problematic?
Anjali: Yeah. So most people have heard of cultural appropriation, which is sort of taking on the sort of practice of another culture and calling it your own, not really acknowledging the original culture and not really acknowledging the complexity of I would say, I would say, just a W hite person, like I, it's different if it's another, someone from another marginalized background, taking on another culture. For me personally. So culinary appropriation, I think is just an offshoot of that, that happens really frequently. And I think there it's, it's not that no one can ever cook the food of another culture. I think the problem is when someone from when someone takes on a culture that is marginalized, without sharing the resources that they are gaining from appropriating that that culinary, secret, or practice, or just doesn't do it in a respectful way that acknowledges that they are not the originator of that dish or that style of cooking. That's when I think it becomes problematic. And you know, there's a lot of different ways that that can show up. For example, you know, just recently the LA Times stopped italicizing food words that are foreign words. And that is kind of a way of not othering that similarly, like, if recipes, lead with the actual name of the dish in the language of origin, and then put the English in parentheses, that's kind of centering that dish and its origins rather than your interpretation of it. And it's totally fine to have an interpretation of another culture's desk dish, but not to kind of claim it as the one and only because I think the, the issue is that if we look around at least culinary content creators, influencers, people like that, a lot of times, they are getting famous making money off of dishes from cultures that are not their own. And, and some ways to kind of mitigate that, because it's a lot, sometimes it's not their fault, or they're not setting out to do that. No, media often will kind of already be just as we talked about, like systems already set up to sort of flow in a certain direction, media is already set up, just kind of shine the light on these White influencers that already have a big audience, and then it grows. So but the ways that you might mitigate that would be, for example, to like, use products, but from company like CPG companies owned by people from that culture, for example, which are often like smaller or maybe local, or uplifting creators who are from that culture whose food that you're cooking. So kind of spread, use your voice and platform to uplift other people rather than, again, sort of hoarding those resources. And I think that people don't often think about it. I don't think it's malicious, much of the time, but it's just a simple way to make things more equitable.
Daniella Allam: Yeah. And I think also like, especially for dishes, I think or for products, foods that are that have such a long history, right, and like, have a whole culture of people who know how to prepare that, well, we've taken years, generations perhaps, to, like, finesse the art of making that thing. To like, honor that, like I used to work prior to my students in CPG, I worked in like intellectual property negotiations. And traditional knowledge was one of the things that came up a lot, right, particularly in relationship to plants. And like the traditional knowledge of which plants did what, like a famous example is of a pharmaceutical company, trying to patent Tumeric for anti-inflammatory properties, when you know, the Indian government was like, for 5000 years, like, your data has known about this, like, you can't be patenting, like what we know to be true, and is our knowledge that we kind of taken, and I think similarly with food. One of the things I see a lot in the CPG space is like an extension of this is like, being like this is an innovation like we just broke through like we totally innovated this like traditional thing. My favorite example is all of the ways that they've bastardized hummus. I'm Lebanese, so it hurts pretty badly. You know, like, it's just offensive to us like chocolate and hummus should not be in the same equation. Similarly, at Expo West, I saw I saw a quinoa hummus. And I was like, doubly offensive to me, because I'm part Bolivian, part Lebanese. And I was like, you're using two things. It just doesn't like it's not, let's not call that innovation. Like, let's just call that a crazy idea. But like, don't be saying that you've improved on the original, like, let's, let's let hummus be hummus, like on its own. So like, that's something I see a lot too, right? It's just like, we've just we've taken Chai and we've made it better. We've taken x thing and we've made it better. And it's like, there's this assumption that like, it needed to be better like that there was something wrong with it in the first place. That that I find, you know, pretty problematic in the food industry. But thankfully, I think the brands that really are succeeding, what what is interesting about that is, you know, the example with chocolate hummus is like most of these things don't actually have like market sticking power either. Right? Because I think consumers start to see right through it. For the most part, some of them obviously notoriously stay stay on shelves and do well. But But I think sometimes the market kind of corrects for that and tells people like that wasn't a good innovation to begin with, like you shouldn't have been touching that. But it's just like really funny. Do you have any examples of like these kind of like, let's innovate on like a traditional food?
Anjali: I mean, yeah, there was a, there was a kind of infamous example of a person in Portland who was making Congee, which, you know, is a traditional Asian breakfast I'm, I'm half Thai. So it's also a Thai thing for breakfast. But she said she was making it healthy. And that's like something you see so much in the dietian space, right? So like, oh, no, it's, you know, it's like, it's like Chinese takeout. But it's good for you. Right? Which is all also offensive, because it's like, a lot of times these foods were made less healthy in order to have a market here in the US. And then now they have these bad reputations, even though the original, like, if you go back, back back, the original dish is incredibly healthy and nutritious, and you don't need someone to come along and insult you.
Daniella Allam: And so to and like, 5000 years of perfecting, yeah, you know, and I think it's that like, lack of, like, you know, seeing that, like the history of things, right, I think we get, we humans tend to get so caught up in like the now in the present, that it's hard to, like constantly be thinking like, Where does this really come from? And like, Where does where does this like racist thing come from where it is? Like, it's not an easy exercise for people to do most of the time. But I find like, if you just like, take a moment and just like, think, think through like what what happened in the past that could have informed why this is showing up in this way, then you'll often find the answer right there. And then you won't come up with these offensive innovations. And you'll think, well, maybe maybe I shouldn't position it as the I should just position it on, like, whatever. It's a California fusion twist, you know, like, and I think the words really kind of matter. And I think that that leads me to another thing I wanted to kind of talk with you about, which is, you know, most of the founders that I work with, are in food and beverage, and they're starting, they've launched or they're about to launch brands and products out into the CPG world. And I think sometimes a lot of them tend to get stuck on this idea of like, I need to use things that are kind of trendy, like I need to have product benefits, like plant-based or high fiber or like pre or pro post biotic. So like, what else should they be considering? Like, if somebody is thinking of starting a brand? From your perspective, what else should be in the considerations that as they start to build their products as they start to build their brands? Beyond these kind of trendy benefits.
Anjali: I think what I think about a lot is just how are you improving the food system as a whole. Like, not just how are you going to improve the lives of the people who buy our product, but if whether that is through building a more sustainable supply chain, whether that is just having a culture that, you know, really values all of your workers, no matter where they are. And, and those are kind of, yeah, those are the innovations and the interesting ideas that stand out to me, I was like, what, what are these ways that we can make the world better? Through our products, not just through buzzwords.
Daniella Allam: Wow. I mean, I think what you said like deserves repetition. Like how are you improving the food system as a whole? I don't think that's a question that a lot of entrepreneurs ask themselves. I think it's more common of BIPOC entrepreneurs to ask themselves that question, or what in my experience, and what I've seen, right is that they're, it's kind of inherently built often into the fabric of the brands and the products that they're trying to launch. But it's, I think, it's a very provocative question, because I think some might say, well, I don't need to improve the food system. I'm just trying to make money. I'm trying to, you know, pay bills, I'm trying to get my company bought out whatever it is, right? I'm just trying to I have this great idea. And I'm just want to commercialize it, and make some some bucks. But why would you like I guess why would you advise against an approach like that? Or what could be the pitfall of some of everybody in the food industry thinking like this?
Anjali: I mean, I think the pitfall is, the resources are not infinite. You know, we we will get to an end point, and I feel like it's getting scarier every year. Yeah, when it comes to climate, but also things like income inequities and just and how, how that is just growing and growing. And so I think it's also just in consumer trust, I think especially younger people can feel when that difference is genuine and when it's just words that you're using to sell your product. And I think I think there are some companies that have been able to sort of tap into those deeper meanings and deeper missions, and I think it resonates with their customers.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, I mean, we see that right, we see that in the research that more and more consumers, especially as we go younger, want to see brands that, you know, live and die by their values, right, that are not just saying, Oh, we care about this thing. It's like, Well, do you really care? Like, show me the receipts, like, show me that you care. Like, if you care about sustainability, I want to see it right, I want to see it and believe it. And also on the flip side, especially we're seeing this trend, I think, in around Gen Zers is that like, if they find that, you know, something of what you said wasn't congruent with this mission that you said, you you had, that they'll call you out for you, you know, they'll they'll drop you, they'll cancel you their mood, they'll move on, right? They're really like, their loyalty is a precious resource. Like if you're thinking of being a founder, and, and connecting with consumers. And I think it's not just like the right thing to do. It's also good business because of that, right? Because the market and consumers are starting to change about what they expect from brands. And I think that that is for me, like one of the ray of lights right in this like very crazy and tumultuous times, right? Where, where there's so many things to worry about supply chains are all messed up. And I think what I'm seeing and just hanging and doing some research with, like younger, younger generation folks and consumers in particular, is that they're thinking very differently, from the ways that perhaps even my millennial generation was thinking, and obviously, the ones beyond that. And in the types of products that they support. So I think there's maybe a ray of light here that will eventually hopefully shift shift the market. And I think one of the questions also that I think I get a lot is, you know, working with founders that maybe don't have a lot of resources, right? Like, they're probably BIPOC founders, they are stretched thin, they don't have a lot of time, energy money. But they want to think about ways to build equity into their businesses. What are some sort of accessible ways because I think sometimes it feels like such a big ask. And they're like, I have to worry about my supply chain, I gotta worry about my social, like, what, how can I fit this in? So do you have any sort of tips or guidance for founders that want to build this into their business, but maybe feel overwhelmed?
Anjali: Yeah. One of the one of the entrepreneurs I worked with that Propeller was in this boat where they didn't even have employees. So it was just like, What? What can I really do? But we worked together with his lead mentor, who his lead mentor, was the head of like a restaurant group in New Orleans, so oversaw a lot of people. So we work together to just really solidify his values and kind of write up a value statement about how that would be reflected in the culture of his organization. And that is something that's the kind of like statement and centering that you can use on the day-to-day as like a solopreneur. Just kind of recenter you on what is important, you know, what partnership, should I be going for? What where should I spend my energy, as well as like moving with you as you grow. At no matter which stage to always kind of remember what it is you're all about. And what kind of people you want to bring along with you and why you're all there.
Daniella Allam: Hmm. I think that's really great. Because it almost also ties back to the question about how are you improving the food system as a whole? Because I think the answer to that question gives you sort of this mission, like what is your mission? What is your reason for being like, Why? Why does the industry need you and your product and your brand? And I think if folks can kind of come up with a good statement as to why it needs to exist, then I really liked that that that can be sort of like your Northstar that grounds you and that maybe even if you are a solid A printer can inform decisions about like, okay, maybe I'll buy from this supplier versus another one, and do it in a very sort of accessible way. And I think, you know, I'm biased, but I really think that the that the brands that are really successful or that I've seen be successful from small to, like larger over time, have had a very strong point of view around why they need to exist, and why they're here and are very grounded in that. And I see. And I've seen it also in the BIPOC entrepreneurs in the food industry, right that it's like, no matter what I got, I got my like I might get, I might get dethroned a CEO, I might get all these things thrown at me. But I still know what my mission and my purpose and why I'm here to do this. And what's the value that I'm bringing. So I think that's, that's really kind of helpful. One, are there any other things that you might suggest that like, small scale founders can or maybe like, plant the seeds for like, in the future, as they maybe bring on team members? Or things they could consider? As they grow.
Anjali: Yeah, definitely, you know, we're talking about not hoarding information and kind of letting it flow freely. I'm thinking about some sort of mentorship, whether that is casual or more formal to make sure that all these lessons that you have learned along the way, and maybe like special access that you've been a that you have had, how can you pay that forward? And that applies to BIPOC entrepreneurs as well as White entrepreneurs? Because we definitely, it's just so how was so helpful in Propeller to have someone who had access to these spaces, open doors for the ventures that they were working with.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, I love that. And I think that can even be amplified as like, sort of as a call to like, our White and otherwise privileged colleagues, right in the industry, to, you know, that often are like, I don't know what I can do to like help. Well, here we go. Like there's an answer right here, right, like, open those doors, like, share some of the informations share resources, bridge those gaps, that already is gonna be probably revolutionary for some folks that might not have access to that. So I think that's really a really sort of good example. Do you have any sort of brands products, even, I guess, content creators, that you think are doing a good job at these things?
Anjali: Yeah, so I'm a huge fan of Diaspora. And her spaces.
Daniella Allam: Okay, we love her. Yes.
Anjali: So and even from like, I've been an early fan from just like the selling on Instagram days. And I just always loved how that brand, really always is communicating how they're changing the food system. You know, like, from the very beginning, just getting a having a little handout of like, This is who grew the spice and like, this is why it's important that we're sourcing the spice from from this farmer. So yeah, that's a huge example. And then I really enjoy Daybreak Seaweed out of California.
Daniella Allam: Oh, I don't think I know them!
Anjali: and that's another just cool, like building sustainability into the business. And, you know, seaweed is incredibly nutritious and sustainable. And they do really good storytelling around their products and the people growing them. So yeah. And they actually, they actually had like a nutrition misstep, that went out around their newsletters, and I wrote back to them and was like, this is, you know, you shouldn't be recommending this, it was just weird, like, sort of internet, like, Tik Tok style, nutrition information, it was like, small stones. And they were super responsive to that. And just totally were open to the feedback. So as a consumer, I appreciated that.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, I think that's that's actually really big kudos to them for kind of listening to that. I love that you brought up Diaspora, I think the the business model, you know, even the branding is so powerful. I think some, you know, people would be like, well, that's such a hard supply chain and as it grows, like, how are they going to do that? Right? Like there's a lot of ways that you could be like, This is not realistic or I couldn't do it for my brand. But I think what that brand really shows is that if you build that intentionality into the fabric of your business, then like you make it work somehow. And, I don't know if It's happened to them, right? Because I think the biggest issue with what they're doing or the biggest risk is, is a fragile supply chain. Right? I experienced that when I worked at Traditional Medicinals, we were sourcing herbs from all over the world. And very often, you know, if you had a crop failure, you had to go and source it from another part of the world. Right? So I wonder like, what kind of things they have in place for that? I don't think they've experienced that quite yet with the with the spices they're growing, but certainly, with climate change, it's something that might happen, and how can they keep this ethos, as you know, the availability of things grows over time. So I'm curious to see that and, and I also love the example of Daybreak, accepting feedback, I think so much so many brands, you know, have a hard time with that, especially sometimes founders, like hearing from consumers like, oh, yeah, we like made an error, let's just fix it, instead of you know, making a whole PR thing or like trying to cover it up or, or pointing blame elsewhere. Right. And I think it's just a testament to like, this is the new, from what I see is the new level of expectation that consumers are starting to have, right? Like, you are more likely now to be loyal to this seaweed company than any other seaweed company. And so there is a significant business value to listening to, to your people, the people that you're trying to serve. So I love that example. as well. So as we wrap up, I think I wanted to kind of go a little bit full circle and, and talk about like, what is like, do you have one piece of advice that that you could share to other entrepreneurs or founders starting off their journeys? Like if somebody is like, Okay, tomorrow, I'm quitting my job. I'm doing this, what would be like your biggest piece of advice?
Anjali: Um, just from personal advice that I need to take myself is learn when to say no.
Daniella Allam: Say that again.
Anjali: Very hard for me to do. Yeah, especially I think, especially when you're starting out because it is so new and exciting. And you were like, Oh, you want me and my idea? Okay. Like, I want you to, I guess, I guess. But, you know, I myself, I'm wrapping up a sabbatical right now that came out of just saying yes to everything and really reaching a point of burnout. And so need I needed this time away, to say, what is really important to me, why, why do I exist? How, what, what is my most important role here, and being able to move forward and operate from that place and being comfortable with saying no to things that aren't the right fit for following that mission.
Daniella Allam: Yeah, wow, that's such an important one, I need to hear it. I think every entrepreneur needs to hear that one. Because it's such a, I think, especially when you're when you're going I think in that transition period, I think from maybe like having a full-time job or, or just like a different pace of life. And then you're like thrust into the entrepreneurship space, where it just feels like you need to be like just doing it all. Like, I'm gonna say yes to this, I'm gonna do this, because that's what I'm used to, from, like, what I what I was doing before, but I think one of the beauties of entrepreneurship and at least one of the reasons why I chose that path, and I think a lot of us do, is for that freedom, right is for that space is to be able to like really create intentionally the things that we want to create things that are really aligned with our values. And so for me, one of the things that is helpful is sometimes going back to that, like a mission statement, or like Northstar moment of like, what am I really doing this for? And is this really kind of gonna move the needle? And then also, I think it's about understanding and I and I think you also kind of have written about this is like, the boundaries of like, what is it may be great, like, it may be an amazing opportunity. It may be like, you know, it sounds it's like a shiny object, but something about it doesn't feel right or I'm not in the right frame of mind, or I'm not feeling up to par like health-wise. So like, is it really worth me pushing myself and going to burn out to do this thing? Or is it better to prioritize my well-being and I for me, that's like a big part of the journey of entrepreneurship is like understanding what's really like a must, what's like a nice to have, and what really is gonna like add value to the work that I'm doing and to the impact that I'm giving in the world. And sometimes that even means saying no to things that would be like incredible in theory, but like, for many reasons might not actually end up being the best thing for you. So I think that, you know, that's like the beauty I think of this journey. So tell us a little bit about like, Okay, you're coming out of your sabbatical. So what's next? We're turning back the newsletter on and what what kind of where working folks catch you and find you and hear more from you.
Anjali: Yeah, so I'm getting back into my Substack newsletter, and people can subscribe at Anjali Ruth. That's anjaliruth.substack.com, Antiracist Dietitian. And I'm going to be have some upcoming pieces about just school food and kind of racial inequities in school food system and how to address those. A little bit about public health and weight stigma within public health, which is a huge issue. And working on an exciting collaboration that will be like a series of, of posts that I can't talk too much about. But it's exciting.
Daniella Allam: It's in the works that it will be great. Oh, amazing.
Anjali: And, and I also have some articles that are upcoming in Well+Good. And Men's Health. So you can check out my website, which is AnjaliRuth.com, where I will have all of my clips of the other things that I've done for freelance writing. I'm also on Instagram at antiracist rd.
Daniella Allam: Amazing. And then are you going to be at a few events?
Anjali: Yes, I have an upcoming event. So the annual Conference For Dietitians is going to be in Denver this year. I won't be attending but I will be giving a presentation at Weight Inclusive Nutrition and Dietetics Wind. They have come a gathering kind of right before the dietitians’ conference. So that's in October, and that should be a good time.
Daniella Allam: Wow, amazing. So welcome back. Welcome back from your sabbatical. We're excited to see and I can't wait to read it. I highly, highly recommend everybody signing up for the news for the substack newsletter. Every single article on there is just like really amazing. So if you liked this conversation, please make sure to check it out. And thank you so much, Anjali, for joining us as it was so fun to catch up. I always learn something new. And yeah, can't wait to talk again soon.
Anjali: Thanks so much.